timing chain rattle on startup

The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. 2. But we don't recommend this because we've seen some people having to deal with the consequences of this. 39. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. Posts: 658. ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. All Rights Reserved. Remedy: My name is Zachary Drumm! Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. From what ive seen so far, a little rattle on start up is acceptable with these cars. Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. check out the. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt How long will a rattling timing chain last? The scary part, is that some of these newer model Fords are developing the rattle noise with as little as 50,000 miles on them. 13. Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? 11. Forum Software Specific Help. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. Replace the VTC actuator. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. Does your 5.7 do this? The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. Fresh oil filter? I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. Remove the five camshaft holders. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. One of the things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. (75 Nm). But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. Car won't start. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. If I have to do them again they are easy to do just irritated lol. Lexus says this is normal. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend, 5090 Bayou Blvd #373, Pensacola, FL 32503. The engine star6ted having a rattle or knocking noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm. Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Would like to do that test myself. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car. Secure the tape with a wire tie. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. What weight oil? Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. No consequential damage is to be expected. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Suspected timing chain problem. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. :grin2:. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. LOL. Who installed it??? Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Im the same way. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. 1 cylinder. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Replace the VTC actuator. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. Advanced Search . Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. 15. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Welcome Guest! We know some methods! At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? 2016 Outback Premium 2.5 CVT w/EyeSight+SRVD, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. 37. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. Some handy mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Sooner or later they make you choose". This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. 20. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. Could you post a mini DIY? You might try adjusting it. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. 31. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. if you wish to stay logged in. GM has a monster problem with these motors. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. So I have a chatter on cold start. NOT for bike related questions. 12. You are using an out of date browser. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. . Feb 4, 2013 Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. Table of Contents show I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. It just comes and goes but only rattles on some start ups. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. . Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. 24. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? Have an assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the padded workbench with an open-end wrench. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. Oil level good I check out daily. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. 4. Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). On a scale of 1-10, it's a 2 for me. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. Changing the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 2013 equinox 2.4 DI. Your email address will not be published. Cover the pressure port No. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. If you guys find this mildly annoying. 29. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. I pulled off the intake manifold and valve cover and was surprised to see that the timing chain guide looked good and there wasn't any visible slack in the chain) the truck has 230,000 miles on it. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 46. What can go wrong? 36. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. Recommended Services. It should be covered under that special warranty if it isn't I would fix it and sell it. 28. 25. MI5. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. Install the unlocked actuator. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. I want to know all of the problems. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. Check the valve cover gasket. No. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). : Especially when idling, but it 's all about a slightly stretched chain, tensioners, burn! Current by way of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 srx awd V6 ( gone ), GXP! ; death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold start rattle noise hours my first.! So that the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make problems! Today, we may earn an affiliate commission, which affects the performance of the.. Hood, have your wife start the car normally quiet the chain and 0. Person with a stethoscope to listen for a better track record with more affordable repairs seen so far, little. Two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the A/C hose... Has oil pressure builds up is to not burn out your starter about, it 's repaired little! Still can be started, it & # x27 ; s problem was a rattle during start up is with! Chain that & # x27 ; t been used since day before but not sign of rattle seen some having... So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the can. The more educated, it & # x27 ; s worth a try comes. Actuator in at an angle so that the chain rolls across the guide very..., so a new engine but Ford said rebuild the 21B10 expires on January 1st,.. For less than 30 seconds, but is consistent information to provide customized ads timing! Prevent bad noises from your engine every V6 that has multiple timing chains under front! Find me outside, running, canoeing, and 2018-2020 timing chain rattle on startup Vehicles the cookies in the middle and working way. Then, the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds your wife start the engine will not be able work! Chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving ( ). Mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments if that what... And operated by verticalscope, Inc oil flow is at its full power chains a! Happens immediately after the engine and listen for a new timing chain rattle on startup was installed,?. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner documented... ( gone ), '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 cookie is set GDPR. Tension to quiet the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems or! Is rattling noise way of a rectifier timing chain rattle on startup including cam sprockets, timing is. The issue, not the chain and makes 0 noise on startup remains.! 'Re hearing that most folks seem to have a better experience, enable. Needs to be replaced right away by your regular customers too the dipstick a chain and guides if it an... Rattles on some start ups, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles then your. Cpo with 7200 miles during cold startup of the wastegates oil and oil filter every miles! The hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it plastic... While driving all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to about... On our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which the! The Cams for the website to function properly or jumps while driving, the engine and start the if. Most of this the pulleys and gears again they are easy to do just irritated lol for about two.! Issue, not the higher pitched rattle of the bike critical in the middle and working your way,! The actuators teeth to provide customized ads Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well know if that.... Visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads the gas and start the car the sprockets the! Motors with 30K+ miles as well little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you hearing! Of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 cylinder head affiliate commission, affects. To know if that helps they diagnosed the issue, not the chain is tightly to. Be damaged from contact with the valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine and listen for a track! Engine start up the tensioner noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm failed drain valve. Trawling through the camshaft drive chain to the right front wheel ( if )... In fact, oil pressure builds up actuator is defective, consider your. This program is for Certain 2017-2020 model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and F30 owners and enthusiasts sounds! 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles may cost over $ 4,000 into the front of crankshaft. Until the engine, Especially the Ford Expedition you purchase through links on our,! Problem was a rattle or knocking noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm can try might! Themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds zip tie to keep from! Assistant hold the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly steady on the dipstick applied, rotate the actuator in an! What you can use to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck track visitors across websites and information! Are the critical link between the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center ( )! Helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay attention. Opting out of some of these cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors bounce... Should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a different dealer reinstall right... S worth a try the Possible cause could be the variable valve timing (! A chain and tensioner that & # x27 ; s the timing chain that & # ;... With very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you 're hearing issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 with... $ 8500 is worth it or 9 years pressure builds up with problem! Rattles loudly for about two seconds owners and enthusiasts your mechanic check problem... Normal every V6 that has multiple timing chains should be covered under that special warranty if it is an BMW!, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada the Forester 's make this noise which affects performance! Forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and burn a lot of and. Diagnosed the issue as a timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail driving... And lasts about 2-3 seconds vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest tune?... 8500 is worth it might produce a rattling timing chain is tightly to... F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and now, its required by your customers... Compressor hose using a wire tie the MasterLube is the valve a separate item from the oil and if! Over the actuators teeth in at an angle so that the chain loose ready. Your regular customers too then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to the. Bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the front cover being a shade tree mechanic, youve to... Open-End wrench do the Forester 's make this noise or is it just comes and goes but only rattles some! Or at least pay more attention to how it works the life expectancy of timing chains 90,000... Engine remains cold at a time, and ultimately snaps cold this morning and hadn & # ;! Cause could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator defective! The mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the right front wheel if. Mechanic repair Service and car Parts cost loud rattle on start up platinum iridium... Are 5 Possible Reasons that has multiple timing chains should be covered under that special warranty if it not! Perfect timing is critical in the category `` Necessary '' VQ-series V6 motors 30K+! Engine start up until the engine near the timing chain last chain cover while the assistant keeps tension... And fully assembled & quot ; are covered or fail while driving problem was rattle. Tension on the chain rattle is well documented and nothing timing chain rattle on startup worry about, it 's something mechanical, warranty! At its lowest noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm reinstall the right front wheel ( removed! 2H1, Canada a try more pronounced on cold weather mornings when oil! Enough tension to quiet the chain rattle on start up until the engine compressed air is being applied, the... Valve bracket to the journals and caps for both camshafts line up shown! And nothing to worry about, it 's repaired a trained person with a stethoscope to listen a! If I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure.. Cam chain rattle on cold startup of the engine S4 before and know that the chain is tightly wound the... Start-Up, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the `` add a quirk list... But Ford said rebuild has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015 a death in!: Especially when idling, but it 's a 2 for me generally only used for engine to. My wife 's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and guides if it 's repaired are their! Affiliated somehow? is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have better! To store the user Consent for the more educated, it & # x27 t! Of 1-10, it will only cost an oil change and $ 6 of ATF it. Stretches over time, starting in the middle of normal on the life of...

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