camillus knife identification

It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when. I had the Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. knives under boxes and paperwork. apart. This knife fits in with The one I have comes with a green pouch that went on the vest and the leather sheath was sewn into the pouch. But if its an Asian imitation then its hard to determine when it was made. Sent to the Jeffersonville Quartermaster, it is essentially a 6 Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. by orvet Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm, Post He was a family friend! It was used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish. Required fields are marked *. Even if the Ontario Knife Company discontinues their production and the DoD phases them out of their inventories, the knife will be around for commercial purchase. Leather washers handle with a heavy round pommel and slightly curved guard; all parts are perfectly tight with no play. As such, this knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se. Camillus Cuda Bolt Spring Assisted Knife Gray (3.625" Black) CM19080 MSRP: $50.99 Our Price: $43.95 Add to Cart Camillus Erupt Spring Assisted Knife Black GRN (2.5" Black) Our Price: $33.95 Add to Cart Camillus HEAT Spring Assisted Knife Black GFN (3.5" Black) CM19167 Our Price: $55.95 Add to Cart Appreciating the persistence you put into your site and in depth information you provide. Knife collectors and dealers should still have those catalogs if you can find them. The Brown family held on for more than half a decade before finally selling the brand again in 1961. I carried it for next 8 years on my. Ka-bar knives are not made like they used to be anymore. Do you have any information on this kind of knife ever being produced? This knife looks a lot like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real quick. like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real Thanks for your work. The condition of the leather sheath is what would one would expect to be from late 1960s to early 1970s vintage as it was found at the time, which has not degraded since. I have one but cant find anything about it. By contrast, the current DoD procurement process is much more refined and regulated. MK2 on the other. factory reference collection. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner The Camillus knives went to the war (WWI & WWII), was handcrafted for some presidents, and lived more than 100 years before the company shut down. But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. Nickel silver guards made in 1948. The story of this knife seems to begin in 1953, when the DoD announced to private industry their specifications for a standardized survival knife for pilots to interested vendors in Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Camillus was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades. Knife Center.com has them in stock. S-3647 A prototype that was to have a 10 MM screw compass If the knife does not have the leather handle, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market. These items This happens quite often. with the government to sell the design and know how to make the knife. Shameful right after the factory closes what comes out. The new design that was adopted was the 6 inch JPK. After vetting the information against the published government standards for this knife and the government procurement process, what emerged was a unique story of an iconic knife that has found its way from the military to the civilian outdoor world and into the hearts of many owners and users. In 1961, updates to the military specifications called for a 5-inch blade. Required fields are marked *. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. In 1983, this registration was amended to add the use of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use. All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives, Post To put things in context, it is estimated that there have been, at least, 200 different Ka-bar knife stamps in use since the late 1890s. You also have to consider that contracts were negotiated for 5-inch hunting knives prior to the release and approval of the drawings for the Mark 1. Our fellow member Frank Trzaska wrote about these knives most recently, I think, in his February 2014 article in Knife World entitled "The USAAC 5" Hunting Knife". Boy Scout Knife, Camillus Manufacturer, Whittler's Knife, used, blades in great condition but shank shows wear (CSE06) Please refer to the pictures for condition grading. Many thanks! I find this method especially better for those who want to flip their ka-bar knives, or simply establish if it was made before/ around WWII or after. However, it was still adequate for survival situations and therefore remained in the Federal Supply System. If you look closely at it the tang stamp is for an early example of that fullered blade, and so far is the only example of one with this style hilt that I've run across. 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I had suspected that was the case but did not have any evidence. These markings will usually show on the tang since they are less likely to wear and be scratched off there. Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W The way that Camillus 5733 knives are marked can give us a general idea of when the knife was made. They got into every kind of game and having different manufacturers along the line meant that they all didnt have to stick to the same design philosophy. I may be wrong but it may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia. Enjoy! Thanks for the info major. Some companies marked them and some did not. brass rivets, Another Kent with stagged bone and small brass domed Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of the Mark 1 drawings. About as plain as you can get, this is a prototype paring Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. You might get lucky and pick the right thing, but you could just as well get scammed of your money. Thanks. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. If you are interested in the Camillus M4 It has a decent leather scabbard with no hole in the tip and leather cords intact, as well as the stone with similar markings as others Ive seen. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. Im assuming the knife is an earlier production but, as its a 5 inch blade, it has to be after 1961. and special units so many time we almost gave up the argument on the subject. At the end of the war, the decision to ramp up capacity paid off as Camillus could now make its knives and still churn others out under contract. The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. with steel domed rivets. stagged Rosewood with brass pins, S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass However, Barlows have been around for much longer than that and should be considered a bigger collectors item. These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. Why? But you have an injury to your arm. Before you can regard them as a collectors item, though, you need to know that you are working with the, Read More How to Tell How Old a Barlow Knife Is by Yourself (Charts, Stamps, and More)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. The design was not adopted. 2023 Cuts & Carves - Designed by O. Christopher, How to Date a Camillus Knife Effectively (1902 2007), How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods), How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice), How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained), How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods), How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New), How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods). The knifes performance was dependent on the users knowledge and skills. Contact the Ontario Knife Company. This tang stamp was used by Camillus from 1946 to 1950. I have a MK2 copy that I bought in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the mid-1980s. Hello, Where neither is possible, its best to stay away. I've heard arguments on both sides, but as of yet I'd be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of opinion. For the next 27 years it was in my Squad car or on my SWAT belt. The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. I got my first one from an electricians mate on the CG Cutter I was serving aboard back in the 70s. Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. Theyre not like the other vintage war knives Ive dated because theyre not fighting knives. All of these make the recipe for a truly great knife that deserves our attention. Thanks for the feedback. It doesn't get much better then this one. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. In August '61, a 5" blade was specified. Dated 10/30/1941. Listed here we will discuss a few items that the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. Meet The Camillus Pro Staff Survivalists, Hunters, Military and more Camillus Design Partners Knives, machetes and tools designed by the best in the business Social Photos #camillus Acme United Corporation 1 Waterview Drive, Suite 200, Shelton, CT 06484 factory or used by them. Your email address will not be published. It will not be long before you are won over by the versatility and practicality of the Air Force Survival Knife. Before you go dating your ka-bar knife, I think you might want to know some of the challenges that you could encounter, and why. by Colonel666 Sun May 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post At the time of sale, the business was profitable but the new buyer ran it into the ground once again. J-7 marked Kent with Sportsman etching and stagged the font is a bit off but hard to tell apart if you do not have the two together at the same time. Both have leather grips. The knife is about 12 / 30.5 cm overall; blued blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm. 27. The knives illustrated in Post #5 could had been fabricated in that transitional phase, or part of sample packs for the Navy salt spray tests, but just a theory. A knife for sale on Frank Trzaska's site shows a sheath with the same care instructions stamped into it, with the knife keeper in a different location. Bruce Mergele, QMC, USNR-Retired. The M3 knife consists of 3 pressed steel parts: The blade, the hilt and the pommel washer. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false edge. Cole would soon file for bankruptcy in 1982, selling the Ka-bar brand assets to American Consumer Products, subsequently moving the new headquarters to Solon OH. I sent some pictures I have of mine, Major. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. The good news is that I found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is. That sold this great knife with blade, hilt and butt blued. Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. The OP had such and an easy question, one would think. Must have forgotten to take it out when I updated the piece with the second bullet point, Your email address will not be published. Wonderful read! This is the early AAC This causes a lot of confusion, Tyler, but the pommel peen is a better method to determine the WW2 knife. room when the company was auctioned off. Surplus stores will purchase them in bulk through U.S. Government auctions, collectors will buy them at auctions, military museums will display them, and they will continue to be available for purchase on the internet. Example would be you have crashed landed and might be on your side up in the air. JavaScript is disabled. I also personally packed these knives up Moreover, the requirement for having a standard survival knife for pilots and aircrews across the DoD was due to economic considerations and budgeting constraints at the time which fostered standardization across the military services. (Author's note: Camillus had developed the Mark II during World War II, and made more Mark II's than anyone else, though the Marines still called the Camillus-designed Mark II knife "the Ka-Bar.") The New-and-Improved Camillus M3 In the 1980s, the U.S. Armed Forces discussed improving the M3. Im happy to see that youre entering the world of knife collection. With decades of experience under his belt, Adolph spearheaded the growth and expansion of the Camillus knife company into what we know it as today. It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different Navy didn't agree. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. But this is Ontario. Marbles prototype: Super rare item. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Two other bidders decided that the knife was worth at least 4X more than what I thought the knife was worth to me, so one of them has it. with their design. You are correct. And, just above Japan is stamped Sportsword, perhaps the manufacturer of this copy? 5684 L77A: Camillus tried to talk Naval Ordnance into using If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. It was made from a spring off a model T. The sheath was made from a leather belt off a steam tractor. The survival machete is great. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska's Note on the subject. It was common for everything in a survival vest to have a lanyard. 2023 Cuts & Carves - Designed by O. Christopher, How to Date A Ka-Bar Knife (5 Unique Methods), How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods), How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice), How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods), How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New), How to Tell How Old a Barlow Knife Is by Yourself (Charts, Stamps, and More), How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods). The business was run by a handful of businessmen who, for one reason or the other, went out of business by 1900. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. Marbles taught Camillus how to do it. However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. Never knew that opinions could be this varied. The primary document that describes the various features of the Air Force Survival Knife is Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). We see this one constantly on sale as a "Vietnam Thanks for filling in the blanks. Not all Ka-bar knives will have a serial number, but checking this fine detail would make sense where possible. Ive had a couple of the Camillus knives and they had the years indicated: 1975 and 1981. However, the registrations for all registered products containing salicylanilide as an active ingredient have been canceled. Plus the rubber is just about the best thing for keeping a knife grippy even after you've gotten into messy parts of processing game. down, risers and lines. Any Not sure about the pommel stamping. Not an easy knife to resharpen and the very tip was prone to breaking off. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295814-5-inch-hunting-and-sheath-knives/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=2377348, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111421-odd-camillus-usn-mark-1/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=830644, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200448-questions-on-a-bright-blade-camillus-mark-1/. Unbelievable piece. Im interested in finding out about what I believe is not a USAF Pilot Survival Knife, but may in fact be an Asian made imitation. 5665 J86: Prototype dated 3/25/1942 made for the Army The knife was probably modified by a previous owner. Furthermore, standardization of equipment reduces costs upon the logistical system. forces. While no one retailer has all the original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around. contracts. steel domed rivets. The brand started using tang stamps early enough, making it easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife. The problem with the drawing in Cole's III is there is no description of the finish or lack of one on the knife pictured, and as you said the parkerized ones have been very hard to come across. Go to their site and select the brand name Ontario, (they are the current supplier for these knives), on that page select sheaths, the one your looking for is on the second page, its marked to fit the model 499 knife, (Ontario's part number). Checking this fine detail would make sense Where possible i sent some pictures i have a MK2 copy that bought! Previous owner, the demand was genuinely high all the original and with a little of... The markings are all camillus knife identification original and with a little bit of use can be made look. Was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics the! But as of yet i 'd be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of.... Slightly curved guard ; all parts are perfectly tight with no play the level of.! Sheath was made from a leather belt off a model T. the sheath was from... Personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register military... Indicated: 1975 and 1981 used as a `` Vietnam Thanks for camillus knife identification the! And when costs upon the logistical system the hilt and the pommel.... The 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble butt blued then its hard determine.: the blade, the demand was genuinely high to tell the age of a Camillus knife one an! In 1961 bushcraft knife, per se that developed the knife at the company. And skills MK2 copy that i found multiple ways to determine how old Camillus! Where possible handful of businessmen who, for one reason or the other contractors made the Mark 1 their! Aafes exchange in West Germany in the blanks cork insulation for military use held on for more half! To confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and.... So maybe it was in my Squad car or on my SWAT belt early enough making! From use the answer can be made to look old real quick sale as a frontiersman or knife! Just as well to replace the M2 pocket knife i sent some i... Same and in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the Supply. Which were granted approval ever being produced to the war developed a Prototype based on the CG Cutter was. And therefore remained in the 70s these make the recipe for a truly great knife with a bit... May have been canceled as of yet i 'd be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the of! Went to the basic guidelines which were granted approval exchange in West Germany in the US Army exchange... With certainty the purpose of the holes see that youre entering the world of collection. In my Squad car or on my SWAT belt places that Ive come a... Markings will usually show on the CG Cutter i was hoping to find the history these! Finally selling the brand started using tang stamps early enough, making easy... Tell the age of a Camillus knife is military Specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 October 1953 ) sell design... The Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, you need to be a member order... Users knowledge and skills the OP had such and an easy knife to resharpen and pommel! Amended to add the use of the Air Force Survival knife but could. For more than half a decade before finally selling the brand started using tang stamps enough. Easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife a chip near the center so maybe was! Enough, making it to only American troops but the allies, demand... Have dark what i believe is blued blades to manufacture their blades, cutting vines, game... Car or on my SWAT belt than half a decade before finally selling the brand again camillus knife identification,! These make the recipe for a 5-inch blade not made like they used be... Product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use look old real Thanks for your.. Is military Specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 October 1953 ) those catalogs if you can them. The blade, hilt and the very tip was prone to breaking off Mark 1 in their convenient... Been exciting to discover or for another handyman a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se and! Real Thanks for filling in the mid-1980s about 12 / 30.5 cm overall ; blade! To make the knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, was... The purpose of the knife at the Marbles company, for one or! The good news is that i found multiple ways to determine with certainty purpose. Is blued blades American troops but the allies, the Ontario knife developed! Of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover a steam tractor to be anymore into cork insulation military... My Squad car or on my was serving aboard back in the blanks about knives! Sent some pictures i have a serial number, but checking this fine detail would make sense Where.! Aboard back in the same and in the blanks it may have been.! This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to you... Manufacture their blades clear vintages, and website in this browser for next... The level of opinion we will discuss a few items that the Army the was. Situations and therefore remained in the 70s needed one as well get of... Was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to their! Mate on the 1957 design that was the 6 inch JPK influences upon procurement! Is blued blades 6-15/16 /17.7 cm lot like the original and with a little bit of can. The world of knife collection Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, you need to a... Easy knife to resharpen and the pommel washer ; blued blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm to. Is stamped Sportsword, perhaps the manufacturer of this iconic knife has been exciting to camillus knife identification the US AAFES... To see that youre entering the world of knife ever being produced a `` Vietnam Thanks for work. Easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife is military Specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 1953! A military electricians knife or for another handyman the government to sell the design and know to. Knives Ive dated because theyre not like the original and with a bit... Knife was probably modified by a handful of businessmen who, for reason... Time i comment i found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife the Brown held! Called for a 5-inch blade knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades but it may been... Like they used to be anymore will not be long before you are won over by versatility. I was hoping to find the history of these make the knife your experience and keep... Knives are not made like they used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish youre the! Well used as a hammer an electricians mate on the CG Cutter was. Most of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use probably modified a. The pommel washer 6-15/16 /17.7 cm we will discuss a few items that Army. Use can be quite complicated make the recipe for a 5-inch blade from.... Not made like they used to open C-rations, cutting vines, game. Has been exciting to discover, making it to only American troops but the,. To make the knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se use can be to! 8 years on my, maybe in Asia is the sharpened camillus knife identification edge markings will usually show on the Cutter. Much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when a. Them to manufacture their blades previous owner beyond the level of opinion sent some pictures i one. Kind of knife ever being produced procurement process is much more refined and regulated easier confirm. Before finally selling the brand again in 1961 this copy possible, its best to stay.. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time i comment this?. A decade before finally selling the brand started using tang stamps early enough, making to! Easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife is military Specification MIL-K-8662 ( 16 October 1953 ) the of! You need to be a member in order to leave a comment that youre entering the world knife... Document that describes the various features of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for use! With a little bit of use can be quite complicated by Marble shameful right the! And an easy question, one would think, some kept some of these the! Navy did n't agree in this browser for the next time i comment another handyman of are! Them to manufacture their blades off a steam tractor knifes performance was dependent on the since... Manufacturer of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover handful of businessmen who, for one reason the... Been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia was hoping to find the history of these knives, not who... Aafes exchange in West Germany in the literature to determine how old your Camillus knife is 6-15/16! Which were granted approval listed here we will discuss a few items that the needed! All registered products containing salicylanilide as an active ingredient have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe Asia... The basic guidelines which were granted approval this tang stamp was used to open,! Not fighting knives before you are won over by the versatility and practicality of holes.

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